Ben en fait...CHRISTOPHE192 a écrit :merci @Pascal L pour la petitesse de ta leçon .
Pas si petite pour le coup
Lance Armstrong
-
vincent le chlore
- Messages : 380
- Inscription : 18 sept. 2009 23:43
Re: Lance Armstrong
Pas si petite pour le coup
Re: Lance Armstrong
"Mon dieu quel bordel sur ce post !!
I don't ride a bike to add days to my life. I ride a bike to add life to my days !!!
Re: Lance Armstrong
Oui, c'est pour ça que j'ai encore fait le méchant censeur ....
Y'a déjà un post + ou - scabreux sur les posts que je viens de supprimer ......
Y'a déjà un post + ou - scabreux sur les posts que je viens de supprimer ......
Optimiser votre position vélo ?
http://www.velofitting.com
Il n'y a pas de chemin vers le bonheur, le chemin est le bonheur.
http://www.velofitting.com
Il n'y a pas de chemin vers le bonheur, le chemin est le bonheur.
Re: Lance Armstrong
Joel a écrit :Oui, c'est pour ça que j'ai encore fait le méchant censeur ....
Y'a déjà un post + ou - scabreux sur les posts que je viens de supprimer ......
"Etre beau et bien habillé est indispensable. Avoir un but dans la vie ne l'est pas." Oscar Wilde
Re: Lance Armstrong
Oui Christophe j'ai bien compris.CHRISTOPHE192 a écrit :
sinon @Vank , tu as bien compris que je suis sur le fond sur un playdoyer pour les coureurs , et donc que je suis vent debout contre tous ceux qui comme toi
en font les coupables désignés .
pour moi , au contraire , ils sont les victimes désignés car quand le dopage est généralisé , et c'est bien ce à quoi était confonté Lance en arrivant et en évoluant dans le monde professionnel ,
ça signifie que les équipes sont organisées pour cela , que les organisateurs et les autorités du cyclisme ont un laxisme coupable et complice pour n'attraper quasiment personne , que les médias
ne cherchent pas à comprendre l'invraissemblance des performances ,
et que les pouvoirs politiques nationaux ou au niveau des instances mondiales chargé de la santé manquent à leur responsabilité
en détournant le regard .
Lance a plusieurs défauts , il n'a jamais été pris ce qui est exaspérant , et en plus , il a été longtemps le meilleur , il ne faisait pas grand chose pour se rendre sympathique auprès des médias , il s'occupait de tout dans ses équipes donc y compris du dopage , et sans complexe il s'engage dans la lutte contre la maladie et flirte avec la politique . néanmoins , ce n'était qu' un coureur comme les autres qui sur le fond n'y pouvait rien et qui devait se compromettre pour réussir .
par ailleurs , il a toujours été un fou de sport , un putain de compétiteur jusqu'au boutiste et ultra-déterminé ... je ne m'en cache pas , je l'adore .
Tu noteras que j'ai écrit supra qu'ils étaient aussi les victimes, les principales victimes serais-je même tenté d'ajouter. Néanmoins, sauf à me prouver qu'ils sont dopés de force ou "à l'insu de leur plein gré", ils sont les premiers coupables. Car rien ne justifie que l'on accepte de se doper (j'ai bien écrit "accepte" et non "décide") au prétexte que les autres le font. Quand j'étais gamin, je me prenais une baffe quand j'avais fait une connerie puis une deuxième si j'avais le malheur de me justifier en disant: "oui mais Machin il a fait pareil"........
Mais bien sûr ils ne sont pas les seuls coupables et j'espère, comme toi, qu'un bon coup de Karcher va être passé.
Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.
Re: Lance Armstrong
Bonjour Joël.Joel a écrit :Oui, c'est pour ça que j'ai encore fait le méchant censeur ....
Y'a déjà un post + ou - scabreux sur les posts que je viens de supprimer ......
J'aimerais que tu m'expliques ce qu'il y avait de scabreux dans mon post, qui n'était qu'une façon de dire que l'on s'éloiganit fortement du sujet...............
D'avance merci.
Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.
Re: Lance Armstrong
Même si j'ai répondu, je t'approuve parce que ça n'avait rien à faire sur ce fil... Mais faut faire le nettoyage complet alors !Joel a écrit :Oui, c'est pour ça que j'ai encore fait le méchant censeur ....
Y'a déjà un post + ou - scabreux sur les posts que je viens de supprimer ......
Re: Lance Armstrong
Bon la fin de la récréation a été sifflée, donc revenons au sujet !
Voici la traduction anglaise complète de l'article sur Ferrari. Désolé je n'ai pas l'original et je n'ai pas le temps de traduire, mais je vous conseille vivement de lire (les pro LA et les anti LA) car c'est vraiment intéressant. Le rapport de l'USADA a ouvert la boîte de Pandore ...
The Michele Ferrari system revealed
Swiss bank accounts, fake contracts
Milano, 18 October 2012
How to launder the money earned from doping. Two years of investigations by the public prosecutor Roberti into the doctor from Ferrara. The Gazzetta reveals the set-up that involved not just the riders, but also the teams, for an estimated "turnover" of €30 million
It is the biggest antidoping investigation in the history of sport, much bigger than Operacion Puerto. Thousands of pages of documents, witness statements, wiretaps, searches and international depositions in Switzerland, Monaco and Spain. The public prosecutor Benedetto Roberti form Padova, who has been investigating this matter for years, went after Michele Ferrari, the most famous coach in cycling, to uncover his illegal activities and bring to justice the man everyone called "Doctor Myth" after he had been acquitted on appeal in 2006 in the doping trial in Bologna. The investigators reckon that the sums involved amount to millions of euro, probably as much as €30 million.
CHINESE BOXES — Following this lead, Roberti found the evidence that led to the investigations carried out by the USADA in America involving Lance Armstrong, but he also opened up a much bigger Pandora's box. His investigations have revealed a complex game of Chinese boxes and financial triangulations involving top riders, managers and staff of the most important teams (until the Pro Tour), who have cheated the tax authorities by laundering the money they earned from their illegal activities (the victories achieved thanks to doping) by using Swiss numbered bank accounts with the help of local officials or "resorting to taking the money out of the country in the classic way by putting it in a suitcase and using a hired car". But that is not the only crime. They are also being accused of money laundering by using fake image management contracts with two different versions deposited with a company in Monaco in order to get round the rules of the Union Cycliste Internationale. Another business worth millions of euro, stretching as far as Gibralter and South America.
THE ALLEGED CRIMES — The investigations by the prosecutor from Padova, which began in 2010 and should be completed by the end of the month, are in danger of becoming a tsunami as riders and top athletes, such as the Olympic race walker Alex Schwazer (who tested positived for EPO) and other athletes from the biathlon and triathlon, all used to visit Ferrari at a flat he rented in Saint Moritz or even in a camper he would park by the toll-gate for the motorway at Rioveggio. This is proven by wiretaps. The doctor from Ferrara is under investigation in Padova for conspiracy in the smuggling, sale and administering of performance-enhancing drugs, tax evasion and money laundering, together with his son Stefano, the sports agent Raimondo Scimone, two bank managers from Locarno and Neuchatel, and the Swiss lawyer Rocco Taminelli, who has already declared that he was not involved and merely handled the defence of riders involved in doping matters.
PACKAGE — According to the investigators they created a transnational ring based in Italy that made money from doping, offering their clients a "complete package of services" ranging from advice concerning contracts, training and medication, to legal support when testing positive in drugs tests or in trials for doping by means of "very sharp practices, including the altering of haematic values to call into question the results of drugs tests relating to their biological passport". The aim was to "artificially enhance the performance of the athletes and thereby increase the money they were paid and, in turn, the amount the medical professionals received for looking after them". Dozens of riders are involved, even entire teams, such as Astana and RadioSchack. The Gazzetta is able to reconstruct this money chain on the basis of the international depositions. The man behind everything was Ferrari, who "with the help of his son Stefano and the sports agent Scimone, promoted and set up the ring, and then persuaded the athletes who were his patients to illegally buy banned products (including EPO) or to undergo illegal treatment to enhance their sports performance". In addition to the wiretaps, the investigations have also turned up evidence during "searches carried out on sportsmen/women who were patients of Ferrari. On every occasion performance-enhancing substances (hormones) were seized, some of which are believed to have been smuggled from Switzerland on the trips to Saint Moritz". Moreover, the doctor from Ferrara also moved the proceeds from his criminal activities through bank accounts at the UBS in Neuchatel (where he knew the manager Marco Gigandet) and the Credit Suisse in Saint Moritz. He did this by using as a cover "normal operations in Switzerland" (consultancy activities and legal fees) for the internet website 53x12.com, run by his son Stefano, belonging to the company Health&Performance Athemis Gestion based in Neuchatel. "In truth virtually all the money - write the investigators - was received in cash in Italy and Switzerland so as to avoid paying taxes in the two countries".
BANK ACCOUNTS — The other man behind the operation was Scimone, who with the help of people he knew at the BSI bank in Locarno (the assistant bank manager Edoardo Conceprio) "allowed various Italian and foreign athletes to open bank accounts to move the proceeds of the illegal activities and he himself also transferred the money obtained from the illegal activities". These accounts were used directly by Scarponi, Menchov, Kolobnev, Gusev, Karpets, Ignatiev, Petrov and Ongarato. Scarponi used a branch of the bank in Chiasso. In this way, according to the investigators, "the undeclared money earned from their sports activities (not included in the UCI contract) or the entire sum in the case of contracts with foreign companies based in a country other than the country in which the riders resided or in which they were paid" was transferred or deposited into Swiss accounts. This is what happened in the case of Scarponi, who is resident in Italy, but having a contract with a Colombian team (Savio's Diquigiovanni-Androni) in 2009, he managed to avoid paying tax on almost the entire amount of his contract by transferring it temporarily from Monaco before depositing it in a Swiss bank account, paying just 6% in taxes in the Principality". The wiretaps also "reveal that Scimone arranged the first contact with Ferrari".
CONTRACTS AND TEAMS — But the most fascinating part of the whole story is the game of Chinese boxes. Everything revolved around T&F Sport Management, a company based in Monaco, run by Claudio Tessera. "In this already intricate mechanism involving Scimone, the cyclists and the teams, on Scimone's prompting the cyclists were introduced to T&F Sport Management. Many cyclists signed fake contracts for the management of their image, paying a fee that was a percentage of their income on which they had managed to avoid paying tax by getting their teams to pay them through the Monaco company, which took 6% of their contract. The company and the cyclist reached an agreement separately with T&F, signing another, different image contract the UCI knew nothing about, benefitting the athlete (tax evasion) and the company (which avoided the cost of paying a surety to the UCI)". Basically, the mechanism worked like this: the rider sold his rights to T&F, the teams involved in the scam would then buy the rights at a much higher price and just 6% would be deducted from this sum with the remaining 94% paid to the rider by transferring the money to a Swiss bank account. At this point the rider could re-use this money for different activities. Including paying Ferrari. That is why the public prosecutor is also considering the charge of money laundering. Around twenty professional teams are alleged to have been involved in this scam over the four-year period 2008-2011. The prosecutor's office have obtained the contracts of all the cyclists who rode in that period for Liquigas, Lampre, Colnago, Geox, Androni, Katusha, Quick Step, CNF-Inox, Farnese Vini, Acqua&Sapone, Astana, RadioShack, Vacansoleil, ISD, CSF, LPR, Diquigiovanni, Tinkoff, Rabobank, Gerolsteiner and Milram to compare them with the contracts deposited with the UCI to see how much money they failed to declare. An example is the contract signed by Franco Pellizotti "from which it clearly emerges that there was a second contract as described above", it is written in certain documents. "In addition to Pellizotti, the riders of Astana transferred all the money they received through T&F. The evidence is in the computer seized from Yaroslav Popovych, where in a deleted e-mail reference is made to the involvement of T&F as the company paying him his salary from Olympus, the company that manages Astana". A bottomless black hole.
Investigation by Luigi Perna
© RIPRODUZIONE RISERVATA
Voici la traduction anglaise complète de l'article sur Ferrari. Désolé je n'ai pas l'original et je n'ai pas le temps de traduire, mais je vous conseille vivement de lire (les pro LA et les anti LA) car c'est vraiment intéressant. Le rapport de l'USADA a ouvert la boîte de Pandore ...
The Michele Ferrari system revealed
Swiss bank accounts, fake contracts
Milano, 18 October 2012
How to launder the money earned from doping. Two years of investigations by the public prosecutor Roberti into the doctor from Ferrara. The Gazzetta reveals the set-up that involved not just the riders, but also the teams, for an estimated "turnover" of €30 million
It is the biggest antidoping investigation in the history of sport, much bigger than Operacion Puerto. Thousands of pages of documents, witness statements, wiretaps, searches and international depositions in Switzerland, Monaco and Spain. The public prosecutor Benedetto Roberti form Padova, who has been investigating this matter for years, went after Michele Ferrari, the most famous coach in cycling, to uncover his illegal activities and bring to justice the man everyone called "Doctor Myth" after he had been acquitted on appeal in 2006 in the doping trial in Bologna. The investigators reckon that the sums involved amount to millions of euro, probably as much as €30 million.
CHINESE BOXES — Following this lead, Roberti found the evidence that led to the investigations carried out by the USADA in America involving Lance Armstrong, but he also opened up a much bigger Pandora's box. His investigations have revealed a complex game of Chinese boxes and financial triangulations involving top riders, managers and staff of the most important teams (until the Pro Tour), who have cheated the tax authorities by laundering the money they earned from their illegal activities (the victories achieved thanks to doping) by using Swiss numbered bank accounts with the help of local officials or "resorting to taking the money out of the country in the classic way by putting it in a suitcase and using a hired car". But that is not the only crime. They are also being accused of money laundering by using fake image management contracts with two different versions deposited with a company in Monaco in order to get round the rules of the Union Cycliste Internationale. Another business worth millions of euro, stretching as far as Gibralter and South America.
THE ALLEGED CRIMES — The investigations by the prosecutor from Padova, which began in 2010 and should be completed by the end of the month, are in danger of becoming a tsunami as riders and top athletes, such as the Olympic race walker Alex Schwazer (who tested positived for EPO) and other athletes from the biathlon and triathlon, all used to visit Ferrari at a flat he rented in Saint Moritz or even in a camper he would park by the toll-gate for the motorway at Rioveggio. This is proven by wiretaps. The doctor from Ferrara is under investigation in Padova for conspiracy in the smuggling, sale and administering of performance-enhancing drugs, tax evasion and money laundering, together with his son Stefano, the sports agent Raimondo Scimone, two bank managers from Locarno and Neuchatel, and the Swiss lawyer Rocco Taminelli, who has already declared that he was not involved and merely handled the defence of riders involved in doping matters.
PACKAGE — According to the investigators they created a transnational ring based in Italy that made money from doping, offering their clients a "complete package of services" ranging from advice concerning contracts, training and medication, to legal support when testing positive in drugs tests or in trials for doping by means of "very sharp practices, including the altering of haematic values to call into question the results of drugs tests relating to their biological passport". The aim was to "artificially enhance the performance of the athletes and thereby increase the money they were paid and, in turn, the amount the medical professionals received for looking after them". Dozens of riders are involved, even entire teams, such as Astana and RadioSchack. The Gazzetta is able to reconstruct this money chain on the basis of the international depositions. The man behind everything was Ferrari, who "with the help of his son Stefano and the sports agent Scimone, promoted and set up the ring, and then persuaded the athletes who were his patients to illegally buy banned products (including EPO) or to undergo illegal treatment to enhance their sports performance". In addition to the wiretaps, the investigations have also turned up evidence during "searches carried out on sportsmen/women who were patients of Ferrari. On every occasion performance-enhancing substances (hormones) were seized, some of which are believed to have been smuggled from Switzerland on the trips to Saint Moritz". Moreover, the doctor from Ferrara also moved the proceeds from his criminal activities through bank accounts at the UBS in Neuchatel (where he knew the manager Marco Gigandet) and the Credit Suisse in Saint Moritz. He did this by using as a cover "normal operations in Switzerland" (consultancy activities and legal fees) for the internet website 53x12.com, run by his son Stefano, belonging to the company Health&Performance Athemis Gestion based in Neuchatel. "In truth virtually all the money - write the investigators - was received in cash in Italy and Switzerland so as to avoid paying taxes in the two countries".
BANK ACCOUNTS — The other man behind the operation was Scimone, who with the help of people he knew at the BSI bank in Locarno (the assistant bank manager Edoardo Conceprio) "allowed various Italian and foreign athletes to open bank accounts to move the proceeds of the illegal activities and he himself also transferred the money obtained from the illegal activities". These accounts were used directly by Scarponi, Menchov, Kolobnev, Gusev, Karpets, Ignatiev, Petrov and Ongarato. Scarponi used a branch of the bank in Chiasso. In this way, according to the investigators, "the undeclared money earned from their sports activities (not included in the UCI contract) or the entire sum in the case of contracts with foreign companies based in a country other than the country in which the riders resided or in which they were paid" was transferred or deposited into Swiss accounts. This is what happened in the case of Scarponi, who is resident in Italy, but having a contract with a Colombian team (Savio's Diquigiovanni-Androni) in 2009, he managed to avoid paying tax on almost the entire amount of his contract by transferring it temporarily from Monaco before depositing it in a Swiss bank account, paying just 6% in taxes in the Principality". The wiretaps also "reveal that Scimone arranged the first contact with Ferrari".
CONTRACTS AND TEAMS — But the most fascinating part of the whole story is the game of Chinese boxes. Everything revolved around T&F Sport Management, a company based in Monaco, run by Claudio Tessera. "In this already intricate mechanism involving Scimone, the cyclists and the teams, on Scimone's prompting the cyclists were introduced to T&F Sport Management. Many cyclists signed fake contracts for the management of their image, paying a fee that was a percentage of their income on which they had managed to avoid paying tax by getting their teams to pay them through the Monaco company, which took 6% of their contract. The company and the cyclist reached an agreement separately with T&F, signing another, different image contract the UCI knew nothing about, benefitting the athlete (tax evasion) and the company (which avoided the cost of paying a surety to the UCI)". Basically, the mechanism worked like this: the rider sold his rights to T&F, the teams involved in the scam would then buy the rights at a much higher price and just 6% would be deducted from this sum with the remaining 94% paid to the rider by transferring the money to a Swiss bank account. At this point the rider could re-use this money for different activities. Including paying Ferrari. That is why the public prosecutor is also considering the charge of money laundering. Around twenty professional teams are alleged to have been involved in this scam over the four-year period 2008-2011. The prosecutor's office have obtained the contracts of all the cyclists who rode in that period for Liquigas, Lampre, Colnago, Geox, Androni, Katusha, Quick Step, CNF-Inox, Farnese Vini, Acqua&Sapone, Astana, RadioShack, Vacansoleil, ISD, CSF, LPR, Diquigiovanni, Tinkoff, Rabobank, Gerolsteiner and Milram to compare them with the contracts deposited with the UCI to see how much money they failed to declare. An example is the contract signed by Franco Pellizotti "from which it clearly emerges that there was a second contract as described above", it is written in certain documents. "In addition to Pellizotti, the riders of Astana transferred all the money they received through T&F. The evidence is in the computer seized from Yaroslav Popovych, where in a deleted e-mail reference is made to the involvement of T&F as the company paying him his salary from Olympus, the company that manages Astana". A bottomless black hole.
Investigation by Luigi Perna
© RIPRODUZIONE RISERVATA
Re: Lance Armstrong
ALORS LA C'EST LA MEILLEURE...
Le syndrome de Stockholm quelque part... Dans une itw à l'Equipe d'Aujourd'hui, Christophe Bassons se confie sur le dopage de Lance Armstrong.
Qu'il ne souhaite pas l'accabler OK, mais vu certaines de ses réponses ou bien ce gars est doté d'une incroyable humanité (et c'est un saint) ou bien il est sado maso!
1ère question: "Comment vivez-vous la chute d'Armstrong?"
Réponse de Bassons: "J'ai mal au coeur pour lui".
2ème question: "Vous êtes sérieux?"
Réponse de Bassons: "C'est sûr qu'il a fait souffrir des gars, qu'il est allé très loin dans la tricherie. Mais ce n'est pas pour cela qu'il faut lui en vouloir. Il a un passé, une histoire, une enfance qui expliquent son comportement. C'est con de parler comme ça mais, quelque part, c'est une victime."
Le syndrome de Stockholm quelque part... Dans une itw à l'Equipe d'Aujourd'hui, Christophe Bassons se confie sur le dopage de Lance Armstrong.
Qu'il ne souhaite pas l'accabler OK, mais vu certaines de ses réponses ou bien ce gars est doté d'une incroyable humanité (et c'est un saint) ou bien il est sado maso!
1ère question: "Comment vivez-vous la chute d'Armstrong?"
Réponse de Bassons: "J'ai mal au coeur pour lui".
2ème question: "Vous êtes sérieux?"
Réponse de Bassons: "C'est sûr qu'il a fait souffrir des gars, qu'il est allé très loin dans la tricherie. Mais ce n'est pas pour cela qu'il faut lui en vouloir. Il a un passé, une histoire, une enfance qui expliquent son comportement. C'est con de parler comme ça mais, quelque part, c'est une victime."
Re: Lance Armstrong
http://www.laprovence.com/article/monde ... e-generale
????????????????????????????????????????????????????
????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Re: Lance Armstrong
Ce n'est pas ton message en particulier (dont je ne sais même plus où il était placé), c'est la dérive du sujet sur 9 messages (dont le tien devait être inclus dedans) que j'ai supprimé !Vank a écrit :Bonjour Joël.Joel a écrit :Oui, c'est pour ça que j'ai encore fait le méchant censeur ....
Y'a déjà un post + ou - scabreux sur les posts que je viens de supprimer ......
J'aimerais que tu m'expliques ce qu'il y avait de scabreux dans mon post, qui n'était qu'une façon de dire que l'on s'éloiganit fortement du sujet...............
D'avance merci.
Rien de personnel
Optimiser votre position vélo ?
http://www.velofitting.com
Il n'y a pas de chemin vers le bonheur, le chemin est le bonheur.
http://www.velofitting.com
Il n'y a pas de chemin vers le bonheur, le chemin est le bonheur.
Re: Lance Armstrong
MerkiJoel a écrit :Ce n'est pas ton message en particulier (dont je ne sais même plus où il était placé), c'est la dérive du sujet sur 9 messages (dont le tien devait être inclus dedans) que j'ai supprimé !Vank a écrit :Bonjour Joël.Joel a écrit :Oui, c'est pour ça que j'ai encore fait le méchant censeur ....
Y'a déjà un post + ou - scabreux sur les posts que je viens de supprimer ......
J'aimerais que tu m'expliques ce qu'il y avait de scabreux dans mon post, qui n'était qu'une façon de dire que l'on s'éloiganit fortement du sujet...............
D'avance merci.
Rien de personnel
Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.
Re: Lance Armstrong
+1tribuddy a écrit :ALORS LA C'EST LA MEILLEURE...
Le syndrome de Stockholm quelque part... Dans une itw à l'Equipe d'Aujourd'hui, Christophe Bassons se confie sur le dopage de Lance Armstrong.
Qu'il ne souhaite pas l'accabler OK, mais vu certaines de ses réponses ou bien ce gars est doté d'une incroyable humanité (et c'est un saint) ou bien il est sado maso!
1ère question: "Comment vivez-vous la chute d'Armstrong?"
Réponse de Bassons: "J'ai mal au coeur pour lui".
2ème question: "Vous êtes sérieux?"
Réponse de Bassons: "C'est sûr qu'il a fait souffrir des gars, qu'il est allé très loin dans la tricherie. Mais ce n'est pas pour cela qu'il faut lui en vouloir. Il a un passé, une histoire, une enfance qui expliquent son comportement. C'est con de parler comme ça mais, quelque part, c'est une victime."
Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.
Re: Lance Armstrong
ENORME... et ça vient de l'AMA ! INCROYABLE !calissano a écrit :http://www.laprovence.com/article/monde ... e-generale
????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Le patron de l'AMA pronne une amnéstie générale ?!!
J'en connais qui vont faire une crise cardiaque !
Alors qu'il semblait qu'on allait vers un grand déballage, hé bien non ! On amnestie tout le monde !
Moi, j'étais prêt à juste "des criconstances atténuantes" mais alors là, je suis sur le cul !
Bon ! C'est pas encore fait mais si le patron de l'AMA pronne l'amnestie, c'est aussi peut être parce que ça doit être un bordel encore plus important qu'on ne peut l'imaginer !
Les coureurs ( un coureur en particulier) sont les principaux incriminés mais tout le monde doit tremper de près ou de loin dans l'affaire : les instances nationales et internationales, peut être bien des politiques et allez savoir peut être que même l'AMA est dans le coup. Donc le seul moyen de sortir de ce "merdier", c'est d'amnistier tout le monde et dire que l'on va repartir sur des bases saines !
Repartir sur des bases saines... vive les bisounours !
http://actu.orange.fr/une/cyclisme-le-p ... 40350.html
Philippe
Re: Lance Armstrong
Je vous le dit depuis le début, si L.A. déballe, ça fera tellement mal et de vagues que comme d'hab on se demande si fermer les yeux ce n'est pas mieux. C'était pas bien les gars mais vous promettez de ne plus jamais recommencer hein ? " Oui chef, d'accord chef .... J'espère tout de même que cela va déballer. Faut pas déconner non plus !